Episode 1 - Breaking the Mould: Maia's Journey from School to Legal Trailblazer

In this podcast episode, Maia shares her inspiring journey of becoming a solicitor through a legal apprenticeship rather than the traditional university route. Despite initial scepticism from tutors, peers, and even her own parents, Maia trusted her gut feeling and applied for a newly introduced legal apprenticeship program. Now in her final year at DAC Beachcroft, an international law firm, Maia reflects on the challenges she overcame and the rewards of her decision. Her story underscores the growing acceptance and potential of alternative career pathways in professional fields.

Maia's LinkedIn Profile

Transcript

Kerry: Welcome to Rubitek Talks with me, Kerry Linley. In this Real Journeys, Real Change series, we'll be bringing you ten inspiring stories from individuals who are transforming their industries through non traditional pathways. Today we're joined by Maia, a trailblazer in the legal world. As a final year solicitor apprentice at the award winning international law firm DAC Beechcroft, Maia is specialising in technology, IP, AI and commercial contracts. And her journey proves that you don't have to follow the conventional route to achieve success in the legal profession. Tune in as we explore her decision to pursue an apprenticeship the challenges may has overcome and how she is breaking down barriers in the world of law.

Maia: Thank you, Kerry. Thank you so much for having me on and for that lovely introduction.

Kerry: So let's start with your journey. Only a very small percentage of people have chosen to do legal apprenticeship. In 2022, I think there were 1300 compared to 18,000 law graduates. Can you tell us what led you to explore the apprenticeship route instead of university, especially when most people would have been advocating for that traditional path for you, of course.

Maia: Yes. So I guess it all kind of started when I was in college. So I went to a state school and then went to college and found my passion for studying law. So when I was doing my a levels, of course, given that I was really happy with my studies and studying the topic of law, I wanted to explore career in it. I really felt as though university was just the only given option available. That was the only thing that was spoken about both amongst my tutors and also my peers. There was just no other option. That was just what everyone did, essentially. So I had planned to go to university to study law and had applied. But around that time, one of my tutors, who originally was very, very focused on getting everyone into university, had sent around an email advertisement showcasing this brand new legal apprenticeship program. And I took one look at it and I just, I read, you know, education paid for law degree work experience at a top firm and I just kind of thought, I wondered why no one was talking about this. It felt almost too good to be true. And so I did my own research and found this legal apprenticeship program, which at the time is brand new. So this was back in 2017, which I guess also explains why there's so little people going for them at the moment. I think it's probably because there's just so little spaces, but it's definitely growing. So going back to that time, even though that email was sent around and I kind of voiced my want to apply for an apprenticeship, there still wasn't much support at all from anyone in pursuing a non university route, even though technically I was going to university, but it was still looked down upon no careers guidance from my school, which is a big problem that I'm trying to tackle. Even the original tutor who sent around the email wasn't really that supportive in my application process. And all of my friends who were going to university just didn't really quite understand why I wouldn't want to go. And also my parents, which we can definitely talk about a bit later, of course they only wanted the best for me and I'd come along and shown them this brand new program that kind of looked a bit fake. So they had definitely had their concerns and they also wanted me to be the first in the immediate family to go to university. So I found that quite difficult. I pursued it. I just had this gut feeling that this was the route for me. I really wanted to just hit the ground running. And I also thought, what better way to learn to be a lawyer than from lawyers. So, like I said, I stuck with my gut feeling and went for it and applied and eventually ended up being successful. And here I am now.

Kerry: That's amazing. And you hit on quite a few interesting points there. So why do you, what's your view as to why there isn't that support or there wasn't, then it may well have changed for promoting apprenticeships with a bit more information and guidance, as opposed to just an email going around to students from teachers. Is it about the prestige of the outcome of sending 95% of our students go to university, as opposed to 25% going to apprenticeships? Or is there something else that underpins that, do you think?

Maia: I think it's a mix of things. I think one of the big driving factors was definitely the statistics that the sick, formal college could say, as you said, 95% of our students got into university. And I also think that's mixed with just the outdated views on university. So university being the guiding light, I guess, for what success is, or the measuring tool for how you or we as a society measure success? And I think, yeah, as I said, it's just, I guess the college or 6th form wanting to demonstrate that they are churning out good students and measuring that by way of university acceptance. I also do think, though, it is a bit of, of lack of education around professional apprenticeships. You know, when you say the word apprentice, people tend to think of apprentice mechanic or something like that. But apprentice apprenticeships in the professional industries are definitely new and up and coming and I think maybe, hopefully that will become a bit more obvious with time.

Kerry: What was the moment? So you said you had a gut feeling that you wanted to do this. When did you know that this was a the right thing for you?

Maia: I think, first of all, it happened in two parts. I was lucky enough to get three days work experience at the firm about a year before the apprenticeship program released. And that's why I'm so big on people getting work experience, even just stepping foot in an office. Cause I'd never done that before. I had no connections in law, so I was very lucky to get these three days. And just doing that work experience really confirmed to me that I wanted to, like I said, hit the ground running and just start working. I really enjoyed learning on the job. And so that was when I first knew that I could very easily be swayed by doing an apprenticeship and whatever way it looked like I wanted to start working as soon as I could. And then, secondly, when I saw the advertisement, I think that did just confirm to me that a legal apprenticeship is right for me. After doing my research, following having received that email, and seeing all the benefits as well as just the fact of learning on the job, like I said, I already realized that was suited to me. I think it was then that I knew that I absolutely wanted to do this despite feeling forced down the university route.

Kerry: So it sounds like you knew pretty much from seeing that email.

Maia: Yeah, I really did. It was strange because it did just feel like a gut feeling and I can't really explain it. I guess it's just knowing what's right for you and knowing what feels good to you. And I think that's really important nowadays in a world where we are feeling forced. You know, a lot of people are feeling forced to go down university and other paths that don't necessarily suit them just because they're deemed a successful route or the only way to go, I guess. But it's important to know there are so many other ways that you can go to get to your own destination.

Kerry: You mentioned your parents. I would like to touch on that. I know you faced resistance. How did you begin the conversation, not just with them, but with school and your peers about your decision? What was the reaction?

Maia: So, from my parents, I had approached them and mentioned this program. And in all honesty, I don't really blame them for being sceptical because it almost does sound too good to be true, you know, trying to explain to them that I would join a top 20 law firm, I would get a free law degree, I would almost have a guaranteed job at the end of it. I would qualify as a lawyer, but not only saying that there was no one who'd come out the other end of the program just yet. So I didn't really have a tangible example to show them to. As I said, they were initially very, very sceptical and they had just focused on me going to university for so long because that was their idea of success. And I think universities changed a lot since, since their time. So that was the kind of initial thoughts. I kept working on it. I kept approaching the conversation with them, I kept approaching the topic and kept trying to educate them, I guess, on the fact that things have changed now. Apprenticeships are new and up and coming, and I just felt like this was right for me. That also included printing off the guidance I could find. Back then, it was little because the apprenticeship route was so new, and sitting down with them at the dinner table and showing them this is exactly what the program would look like, I remember it very vividly, and showing them what degree I would get at the end of it, how it would look for me day to day. And that really, really helped, showing them that there were some tangible resources on what this apprenticeship programme looked like. I think nowadays that isn't really too much of an issue. There are a lot of people putting out a lot of really good information about apprenticeships and what they look like, and there are people coming out the other end of it. So it's really good to have those examples to point to, I guess. So that was my parents thinking about my friends. I think they were just a bit. No one really understood why. I guess they were all going to university. They wanted to live the university life and party, and I don't really blame them, I guess. But it was just different. I think people just didn't really expect something different when everyone was just going down the same path. And also with my college and my tutors, as I said about the one who had actually sent around the advertisement, I'd let him know that I'd got to a final round of an apprenticeship program and he said, congrats. But have you sorted out your university accommodation yet? And that kind of showed me that people just didn't really believe in it. They didn't believe that it was a tangible route. Yeah. And they didn't. It was just unknown, I guess. So I kind of can't blame them, in a sense, because it was such a new path and no one knew anything about it. But that was my experience.

Kerry: That's really interesting, because what you've described there is, you're the one doing the. Giving the careers advice and doing the guidance, which is, you know, it flips on its head, isn't it? And that reaction from your tutor is almost like, well, may I stop playing over there and come back and do the. Yeah, you know, let's get your application to Uni started. Wow. Really interesting. And having role models that you could look to and see people like me have done this was really important and the fact that that was lacking. So thank you for being a role model for other people, which. It's brilliant. So when did you think you'd convinced everyone that this was the right thing for you?

Maia: In all honesty, I don't think I'd convinced anyone until I'd started and until I was maybe a year in, because I think people really need to see the physical outcome, you know, see it before they believe it, I guess. And once my parents realized that I was in a stable job, I was learning every day I was going to university, like the program had said. I was studying towards my degree and I was earning a good salary, it was only then they realized, wow, this is, you know, really great. And when they started seeing all the amazing experiences I was getting out of it, that's when they really brought in and realized, right, you know, you were completely right and you were right to go with your gut and what you felt was right, which is why I'm a really big advocate now for going against what everyone else is saying about your career and just choosing what's right for you. But like I said, I don't think it's until you're really on the ground doing the work that people start to believe in it.

Kerry: It's fabulous that you stuck to your. You had the courage, you stuck to your convictions and you trusted your own instincts.

Maia: Yeah, I don't really know where that came from, to be honest. I just had such a strong feeling that I really. I just wanted to work really hard. And to me, that looked like being in a law firm and working and studying at the same time.

Kerry: Since you mentioned that finding information about apprenticeships wasn't easy, how did you go about educating yourself? Where did you go for those resources?

Maia: So, although there was very little out there, there was a tiny bit available, mainly from the legal education provider that I'm with who support apprenticeships. So, of course they're running the program, and although it was brand new, they had to lay out what the program would look like, although that actually changed a lot. Whilst I've been on the course with the introduction of the SQE, anyone who's training to be a lawyer will know, but it was helpful for them to have laid out what the course will look like and what degree or a qualification I would get at the end of it. So, mainly, literally, just from the people who were supporting the apprenticeship, and for.

Kerry: Anybody not studying law, what does SQE stand for?

Maia: So it's called the Solicitor's Qualifying Exam. So essentially, as part of a law degree, you were. Sorry, as part of a legal apprenticeship, you would get your law degree and then the last year or so would be spent getting over these qualifying exams. So it's two different things, having a law degree and then qualifying as a solicitor in England and Wales. So you have to meet both of those outcomes. For any other apprentice, I guess it would just look like your final exams to become, you know, an accountant or anything like that.

Kerry: So that's the next step for you, is it, after this final year?

Maia: Exactly, yes. I'm kind of currently doing it at the moment. I've got SQE two, which is the second half to go at the end of this year, and then hopefully I qualify early next year.

Kerry: Fantastic. What do you think schools and colleges need to do better to provide students with the information that they need so that they can at least consider apprenticeships as part of their decision making process.

Maia: I think they need to be getting apprentices in to give talks to students, because, as I said before, people really don't buy in until they see it's a valid route, which I completely understand, and I don't think there's much appetite for that at the moment. I think also just letting people know that university isn't the only option, and if anyone's even showing a slight hint of maybe not wanting to go, then supporting them on their journey. I felt like university applications got so much time, there was so much support there, whereas I had to do the apprenticeship application completely on my own. And I've always argued that apprenticeship applications are harder than university applications because not only do you have to go through the similar kind of personal statement, it's in the form of an online formal job application, but then you also have to go through interviews. I had to go through a whole assessment day where I had to do group tasks and there was so much more to it than just submitting a personal statement. And I don't want to underplay university. Of course, it's not easy to get in, but I would say it's a lot harder to get an apprentice. And I think just providing support in the application process, like you do with university, that would be a really good starting point. I know that UCAs is now supporting apprenticeships, which is a massive step in the right direction. In respect of that, I think. So not only just letting people know that there's other options out there, but also providing them with the support when they're applying for those other options.

Kerry: There's definitely a theme here. So I've done a couple of podcasts in the past where we've interviewed students who have really struggled with support from their teachers and tutors when they've told them, I actually don't want to go to university, I want to do an apprenticeship. And it's almost as if all of that support is. Is essentially withdrawn and you're left to deal with it on your own. So that's really challenging. But well done you, for navigating that.

Maia: Thank you. That's exactly right. That's exactly how it felt that, you know, that support had just been instantly withdrawn. And unless I was mentioning university, no one really cared, in all honesty.

Kerry: Wow. Okay. So now that you're on this path, what's the most rewarding aspect of being an apprentice solicitor compared to what you might have experienced if you'd gone to university?

Maia: I think for me, once I hit the maybe three, four year mark, I'd realized how much true real life experience I'd gained versus if I was to go to university, I still wouldn't have stepped foot in an office when I'd finished my law degree, if I would have gone to university traditionally, whereas versus choosing the apprenticeship route, I was speaking to clients, I was a million times more confident in my abilities. I had new skills. I was able to even just soft skills, like knowing how to draft an email properly, how to take a phone call, all those life skills that will serve you in years to come. I had got that under my belt in the first year. So I think just looking at where I would have been if I'd have gone to university and realizing all the incredible experiences I had already had in three to four years, all of the huge, huge legal cases I was working on, all of the court hearings I'd gone to, there's just so much that would stay with me for the rest of my life that I wouldn't have got if I'd have gone to university.

Kerry: How do you balance the demands of work while studying? Because the whole point of an apprenticeship, as you've just spoken about, is you're spending a large percentage of your time working, and then some of the time, 20% of the time, you're working on your apprenticeship. So how do you balance that?

Maia: It's definitely the hardest aspect of being an apprentice, but I think people who, like me had done their a levels whilst having a part time job. And I guess even people who go to university and have a part time job at the same time, it's nothing new, it's just a lot more intense, as in you're working full time, essentially Tuesday through Friday, and especially if it's a demanding job, then your hours are longer. But it's just really important to keep that dedicated study time and protect it as much as you can. So it's definitely difficult, but also it is doable if you have the right skill set and you're really determined to, I guess, try your hardest in both the work and the study. It's definitely difficult, but I think it's a small sacrifice to make in the wider scheme of things when you're looking at the benefits you get from being an apprentice.

Kerry: I'd like to give you an opportunity here to just give your employer a bit of a plug and a mention, because getting the support that you need from an employer to do your apprenticeship and complete your studies and get that balance right is, in my experience, really, really important. So what would you like to say about the support that you've had from colleagues, from your employer as a whole whilst you've been doing this apprenticeship?

Maia: I think, firstly, I would like to say thank you to DACB for taking a chance on a young 18 year old me, who really lacked in skills and legal knowledge. And of course, when you're hiring an apprentice, you do hire, I guess, for potential and their character because apprentices don't have any priorities, experience and so it's quite hard to make that judgment. So when I think back to me at 18, I was definitely lacking in a lot of the knowledge that I needed. But I guess that's the point of the apprenticeship, is to bring you to that. So just thank you for taking a chance on me because I've really completely changed as a person for the better because of the apprenticeship program. They've also been very receptive to whatever voice that I need on my journey. This is a new journey for them too. I was the first apprentice that they took on and so whenever I voice that there's a requirement or there's something that I need, they're always happy to support that which has been really important in this journey. And also my colleagues have always been fantastic. It's difficult because there are a lot of old school views around apprenticeships and people still don't really understand them in the profession. But all of the colleagues that I have come across have been absolutely fantastic and so incredibly supportive. They are always willing to learn and wanting to learn more about the apprenticeship route and also they're so good at helping me protect my 20% study time and that's really important, especially when you're a young 18, 1920 year old and you struggle maybe to voice that you have boundaries and, you know, that's something you have to learn quite quickly. I guess if you want to protect your study time, you have to be able to say no, and that's a really difficult skill to pick up. But with the right people around you, you can definitely thrive. I guess.

Kerry: You mentioned that you were the first apprentice solicitor within your company. I'm assuming they also still take on traditional university graduates, is that right?

Maia: Yes, that's right.

Kerry: Do you find that there's any competitiveness between the apprentices and the graduates?

Maia: I've actually heard in a couple of other firms that there can be a bit of friction, but I personally have not experienced that at all. Some of my closest friends are people who had gone to university and were taken on by the firm as traditional Uni graduates and traditional trainees. And we get on so well. And the funny thing is that everyone I speak to that had gone to university always says to me, if apprenticeships had been available or if I'd known about them when I was applying, I would have 100% done it. And it's really interesting to hear. I get it all the time, looking back.

Kerry: So we're coming towards the end, so we're going to start looking at some reflections and some advice for other people. How has making this bold decision shaped you personally, but also professionally?

Maia: I really love that question because I always talk about how it shaped me, not only professionally, but also personally. I genuinely can't put my finger on it because I have just changed completely for the better. I am not the same person I was before I started the apprenticeship. I am worlds more confident, I am more knowledgeable, I have more skills. I am not scared to start conversations with people. I know the law, which is very empowering. There is just so many ways that this apprenticeship has changed me for the better. As I said, personally and professionally, I have a lot more skills in the workplace. I'm able to talk to clients, but also personally, a lot more confident as a person and just really happy in the decision that I made and the fact that I trusted my gut and ended up being right for me. And I think making a decision that goes against the grain that you know is right for you is really empowering. And so seeing that pay off in these final few years and finally reaching the end is really, really rewarding.

Kerry: You sound really confident in your decision. Were there ever any moments where you questioned your decision? Moments of doubt.

Maia: Being 100% honest, there has never, ever been a moment that I've questioned it or doubted it, or perhaps wished that I did go to university, ever. And that's even when things got really hard. And that's not to say that things have been very easy going. There has definitely been moments of difficulty. But even in those moments, I've never once thought, gosh, I wish I'd gone to university ever. I think when I first started, and like I said, I was around 1819, it was difficult seeing all of my friends go to university, and me being the only one with that much responsibility on my shoulders. Of course, university, you have your own responsibilities, but it is not comparable, in my opinion, to the responsibilities that a young apprentice takes on in the workplace, especially at such a big firm or a big company. So, knowing that my friends were essentially partying all the time and were gaining different experiences, that I guess I wouldn't get that. It was hard to wake up, you know, at 06:00 a.m. every day and get the train to work. That's pre Covid time. So things have changed now, but it was hard to remain so disciplined, I guess. But even in those moments when I perhaps wished I could have a lie in, I was still 100% sure that this was the right option for me. And in those moments of difficulty, I would just remember the long game and the outcome eventually, of once I qualify, I would have six or seven years worth of experience, I'd have no student debt, and all of this time behind me. Whereas if I'd gone to university, I may have had fun, but it would just not have put me in the same position as I am in now. And that's also not to say that I don't have fun on the apprenticeship. I've made so many incredible friends, and I think the social aspect of going to university versus an apprenticeship is something that also has quite a lot of myths around it. So I also just want to say, for the record, you do have a fantastic social life as an apprentice, and especially now that apprenticeships are becoming a lot more popular. There's so many opportunities to make friends.

Kerry: I'm at an award ceremony next week, which is the East Midlands Apprenticeship award, so I completely echo that. There are lots of opportunities to celebrate and network with other apprentices. Your answer to that question hasn't surprised me at all. But I did have a second part to the question, because most people have a doubt at some point. And what's really interesting is that you never. So I'm going to move on. But thank you for the answer, because it's really important that other apprentices know that there is a social life around apprenticeships, because lots of people, when I'm talking to them, they will say, I want to go to university for the social life and having that university experience. And actually, what we're saying is you can have that with an apprenticeship just the same.

Maia: You absolutely can. And I think wanting the kind of social life of university isn't necessarily a bad thing, because although you do have an incredible social life as an apprentice, it is different. So, again, it just all comes down to what is best for you and what you want out of the next few years of your life. And just to touch on that doubt point again, although I personally haven't experienced any doubt that this was the right path for me, I think anyone who is experiencing doubt, I would recommend just sitting down with yourself and trying to understand whether this is your gut saying this isn't right for me, or whether it's just a blip in an immediately uncomfortable situation. And if the latter is true, then, and you still know that this is the right path for you, then just remember that it is a long game. Apprenticeships are a long game. And just think about the outcome and think about all the hard work and how much it will be worth it when you get to the end.

Kerry: So my next question you've kind of answered. So I'm hoping you can come up with another golden nugget for us. What advice would you give to others who may be hesitant about going against the grain and choosing an apprenticeship over university?

Maia: I would say make sure that your views are supported, as in, make sure you've done your research and you definitely know this is right for you. Sit down with yourself and think about why this would be the right path for you. And if you are 100% certain about this decision, like I was, then just you have to ignore everyone else, because this is your career, this is your life, and you are the only one that's going to be facing the consequences of your decision. I don't think you should listen to other people, including your parents, about your career path, because, as I said, you are the only one that's going to be living it. So once you're really grounded and rooted in your decision. Just run with it and try to block the noise out in the same breath. I would say, listen to the advice of your parents and your peers because they might, you know, they always have your best interests at heart. Usually that's the case. And so it's always good to take on their opinions, I guess, but have a filter and know that if you're really, really wanting to do this, then you should do it because you're the only one who's going to be able to make the right decision. Ultimately.

Kerry: There are some really interesting sound bites in what you've just said and we'll play them out on social media because I think that's a really important message. Let's talk about your aspirations. So you've already shown huge tenacity and great courage in following your own path and trusting your instincts. Where do you see your apprenticeship taking you next? I know you're coming towards the end. And what are your long term career aspirations?

Maia: Thank you so much. I find that one quite difficult to answer because in all honesty, the last seven years of my life have just been trying to qualify. And so that is the next immediate hurdle. So qualification next year and the final exams at the end of this year. Something that the apprenticeship has taught me is that you never know what might happen next and you never know what opportunities might come your way. And so you should always say yes to everything. And with that in mind, I try not to plan ahead too much or too rigidly because it's always nice to just see where your career goes, I guess. And it's a balance between fighting for your career and getting to where you want to be, but also being open minded to opportunity. So I would say I don't really have a really direct or really rigid plan in mind. I would like to qualify into tech. As you mentioned in the intro, I'd like to continue specializing in this area in AI. I find that very, very interesting. And so I guess I'm just focusing on the immediate next step in front of me and I guess I'll continue to do that.

Kerry: It's been incredibly inspiring talking to you. But before we wrap up our chat, what's one thing you wish someone had told you when you were making this decision that could help other students in similar situations?

Maia: And I don't know how much this will help other people, but I think, I wish someone had told me how massive this decision would be for my life. And I think if I'm actually thinking about other people, I wish someone had told me to enjoy it, because I have enjoyed every second, even the hardest times. And that is the biggest piece of advice that I always give to everyone else who's just about to embark on their apprenticeship, is enjoy it, because it is the most rewarding thing you'll probably ever do. And you'll learn so much about the world and also yourself on your journey, which is really rewarding.

Kerry: That's a brilliant note to end on.

Maia: Thank you. Hopefully not too cheesy.

Kerry: No, not at all. And thank you for joining us this morning. It's been incredibly inspiring talking to you. I wish you every success with your exams. Please let me know how you get on. We really will be following your journey and look forward to seeing your flourishing future that you've no doubt got ahead of you.

Maia: Thank you, Kerry. That's so kind of you. And thank you so much for giving me a platform and for speaking about apprenticeships. It's a really important topic, and it can't be done without support from people like you.

Kerry: You're very welcome.